(2002 -2009), Affordability p10/25. As we talked about above, the M1A is not the M1. But wait, not so fast! All of us fall into this consumer oriented trap. Some of the internal trigger group parts like the hammer and safety as well as some pins, screws and tiny bolt parts are interchangeable between the M1 and the M14, but for the most part not much will interchange between the two rifles. The creation of the M14 from the Garand design was perhaps one of the best weapons system redesigns of the 19th and 20th centuries. Unfortunately, the round was also pretty much uncontrollable in automatic firing modes, so most M14s were retooled to make them semi-auto only and conserve ammo. Regardless, the choice means little if you do not practice with it. Thank you! Are you currently considering one? Nonetheless, this action tends to be somewhat violent. Practice using the iron sights until proficient, store up some spare parts and ammunition, and then get some optics if you need them. This is true when justifying optics for rifles that were made to be shot with iron sights. Had the M1 received some of those same treatments, things may have been different. The definition of Hardness., www.Scribd ENG1108 -L3- HARDNESS- IMPACT-CREEP _ FATIGUE- OH”S. By that time, the M16 was firmly entrenched as the primary battle rifle of the U.S. military, so perhaps it isn’t all that surprising that Ruger chose to chamber the Mini 14 in 5.56. Remember, it is a brake not a flash suppressor. p 11/14. Not all of the available MBR choices were examined. This means that the cartridges have the same head spacing specifications.(23). As one expert reminds us “A calm and focused M1 Rifleman can get the job done just about as well as with a M14.”(20 ). —- One more caveat- the Garand when fitted or refitted to the .308 / 7.62 x 51 cartridge may also require the Shuster gas plug or the McCann gas plug adapter depending on the brand of ammunition you are shooting. 30.Party, Boston T. Boston’s Gun Bible, USA ; Javelin Press, ed. You should consider ruling the night too. All of them were supplied by the United States. 30-06 and M1 Garand. The M1A is quite expensive, at around $1600+ in USD, but it’s currently in production, which means I can still get them consistently. Although I choose the expensive MBR your choice can be the “Tanker Garand” and little will be sacrificed. The M1A is close to $1000+, but I heard you can get them for cheaper thru CMP. The T-37 is about 2.5″ in length and making the Garand 46.1″ (2 inches longer than the M1) in overall length when added (27). 8620 Modified, the same as for the bolt. (2002 -2009). Jump to Latest Follow 1 - 20 of 45 Posts. 21. The M1 Garand will be much cheaper to buy than an M1A. The M1 has some ability to accommodate scopes although limited and , several manufacturers make a scout rail for the Garand and the M14. Party, Boston T. Boston’s Gun Bible, USA ; Javelin Press, ed. Towards the end of WWII, the M1 Garand’s shortcomings were beginning to be addressed. Overtime these marks shorten fatigue life which is defined as the number of cycles required for a material to fail at a certain stress (11). A bright and shiny bore means nothing but, it is so often advertised as a standard by those who are unaware of what makes a gas gun work. Garand. The M14 , or AKA in civilian attire, M1A. A $3/month subscription. Okay, I am biased. 29. After considering all and because I am not getting younger I must say my choice maybe different from yours. One good thing about the Garand is that it is historical and less then 10 rounds which will be a big plus (imo) when the next administration takes over. However, forged M14s are currently made by LRB, and the James River Armory (using the old TRW US contract M14 specifications). Though the fire power from the M14/M1A is greater than that of the Garand I tend to believe that the Garand clips are more reliable than M14/M1A magazines so, I regard this as only a small to moderate advantage in favor of the M1A/M14. For now, we just wanted to take a look at what actually sets these rifles apart from one another, especially for you new shooters out there. They would later be accepted and designated the 7.61x51mm NATO and the M14. The point is check the rifle barrel taper before buying a scout rail. Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! We greatly appreciate your support to help keep this blog up and running! “Get the best battle rifle for you, cost be damned”.“If you are truly serious about battle rifles then you should eventually get into a forged receiver which will last you at least 75,000 rounds (just like a real M14)”(18). M-this, M-that… what number was that again? But I think that it also near perfect for 7.62mm NATO!” (24). What’s notable about the new ammo cartridge and the M14 was that the 7.62 NATO (also called .308 Winchester) was a smaller cartridge with less powder, it still packed the same ballistics as the .30-06 rounds the Garand used, thanks to a newly developed gunpowder by Olin. U.S. Rifle, Caliber .30, M1(top) U.S. Rifle, 7.62 mm, M14(btm.) The AR-15 debate can rage elsewhere. The venerable M1 does have a variant known as the “Tanker” model. Although Chuck can run a bolt action pretty well, he of course loses the race to the semi-auto. Probably not! Consequently, the FAL and HK were not considered. 8. But remember this as one blogger asked: 24.”What’s the Difference between .308 Winchester & 7.62x51mm NATO?”. The son of the Garand. Party, Boston T. Boston’s Gun Bible, USA ; Javelin Press, ed. If the enemy is in range, SO ARE YOU As one author states, “the lack of a muzzle flash is much more tactically important on a semi-auto than a muzzle brake”(26). With the LRB choice I can, without reservation, pass this weapon down to my kin knowing that the receiver service life started with me and should be good to 75,000 rounds because it was forged. Reed-Hill, Robert E,and Reza Abbaschian. This discussion also was for a TEOTWAWKI era. “Tanker Scout Rail Question” . Ruger also chose to simplify the gas system, and implement a self-cleaning, fixed-piston design. FOOTNOTES: 10-23-2018, 06:11 AM. Known for it’s accuracy and being able to reach out and to take care of business much more … But, I want an American forged and assembled rifle capable of shooting an American caliber bullet. Are they different? made by Springfield Armory”? ( I will add that this is true for standard weapons). Jim is the originator of the American Redoubt movement and a frequent talk show guest on shows such as Alex Jones. This line of reasoning holds true for the M1/ M14 debate . The resemblance of the M14 to the M1 Garand rifle is unmistakable and, love it or loathe it, John Garand’s final legacy was the “U.S. You can share ammo between the two rifles, which is handy–especially when it’s hard to get! While the M1 Garand did come first, the M1A isn’t a direct descendant. Regardless, forged steel has greater laminar cohesion than cast steel and because of this it is stronger and harder. M2 ammo for the M1 Garand might be twice as powerful, but it’s also twice as heavy. If you can get your hands on an early M1A, it’s well worth it because it is the closest you’ll get to an M14 without enlisting (or buying surplus). But, if I get richer quickly then a James River or a LRB semi automatic M14 would be a outstanding choice and for some even a better one. That’s a powerful statement, but a mostly objective one. It was the first standard-issue semi-automatic military rifle. This statement is not necessarily true for the M1/M14/M1A shooters. The M14/M1A, of course, does not require this modification. Mauser’s bolt action rifle that set the design standard for battle rifles in a new century of warfare. The AR-15 is an advanced version of the AR-10. M1 vs. M14 Did the Military get it Right in 1957? Ads are what helps us bring you premium content. Notably, the Garand also wins the accuracy comparison by a large margin. c/o P.O. In fact, LRB makes a M14 receiver (M25) with a built in rail for a scope, or a red dot device. Fix the gas problem in the Garand and you are ready to go with most ammunition available. They were carburized 0.012″ to 0.018″ at 1600EF followed by an oil quench temper for one hour at 480E. gman366@comcast.net., Monday, July 11, 2011 4:49 PM.. reply to author. These are adjustable and useful especially in austere conditions when any ammo available may have to be used . 9. His companion Walter Kuleck says :”Most of the time it’s a distinction without a difference. Because you can kill game efficiently, shoot through large cover (12″ diameter tree), and drop the enemy well beyond 600 yards I choose a MBR that shoots the 7.62/.308/.30-06 round. 1& 2. The Process of Carburization for 8620 steel., www.crucibleservice.com. (9) Smith Enterprises – probably by others too- reheat M14 cast receivers to Rockwell scale 55 readings (10). Our mail forwarding address is: James Wesley, Rawles He is also a retreat consultant specializing in off-grid living, rural relocation, and survival preparedness. Been looking to pick up one of these. sling brace, nice! Obviously, there’s a ton more geeking we could do about these rifles, but we’ll save that for another time, okay? Would love your thoughts, please comment. The loss of energy from a 19″ barrel is not significant for the .308. The M14 was also deemed "completely inferior" to the World War II M1 Garand in a September 1962 report by the U.S. Department of Defense comptroller. If you have a FAL, HK, Galil or whatever and, you can use it well, then nothing I stated should change a thing. The heavier the commercial bullet the stronger the ported pressure. This approach first pits the Garand against a Mauser 8mm bolt action rifle, fired by Chuck. Unfortunately, the AR-10 couldn’t succeed in military trials as the barrel ruptured while testing. ANYTHING YOU DO CAN GET YOU SHOT INCLUDING DOING NOTHING tools and technologies, rifle country, Swampy’s reply to SteveW13. without checking to see if it can safely be fired in it? Other reports state that SAI used Chinese made parts in their rifles recently- the Chinese often do not use # 8620 steel. I also cannot emphasize enough that when you buy a MBR especially a M1/M14/M1A you must check the headspacing, the throat erosion and, the muzzle wear particularly, if it is used. Some complain that the parts are rough and that some bolts stamped TRW are fake (14 ). (2002 -2009). His survivalist novel Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse, is a modern classic that reached #3 on the New York Times bestsellers list. The Daily Web Log for Prepared Individuals Living in Uncertain Times. Significant differences between the M1 Rifle and the M14 Rifle are that the M14 uses a larger detachable box magazine and is capable of automatic fire. Also, the Garand and the M14 are rated as the best two MBRs available today- ahead of the FAL, HK, and the AR-10 (4) ( DPMS was not rated and if their customer service rapport is any indication of their product then I can see why !) Коментарии M1 Garand vs M14 / M1A. 8620 case hardening steel. Furthermore : Pre hardened and tempered (uncarburized) 8620 can be further surface hardened by nitriding but will not respond satisfactorily to flame or induction hardening due to its low carbon content (12 ). You’d be forgiven for thinking that, but you’d be wrong. 7. JWR is a journalist, technical writer, and novelist. The M1 Garand is chambered for .30-06 and the M14/M1A for .308. It's not really a fair comparison between the M14 and the M1 as they were used in HighPower competition. 23. I think an interesting prologue to this is why the Garand takes the gas so far forward in the first place. (2002 -2009) p. 9/5 & p 10/3, 3.”Murphy’s Laws of Combat”. Please let others know they too can trust SurvivalBlog for the most reliable and practical survival information by voting for SurvivalBlog on topprepperwebsites.com. They’re also pretty popular for hunting since some areas have ammo restrictions for hunters and the .308 Win round is strong enough to go after any large game. We buy expensive optics to bypass what we really need to learn; that is- ‘ how to use iron sights’! Rifle, 7.62 mm, M14.” So, what rifle should I choose Let me start by saying that a 5.56/.223 in a AR-15 or any other light caliber rifle does not qualify as a MBR with me. Dr. William J. Bruchey, 509 Tome Highway, Port Deposit, MD 21904. www.thegunzone.com, April 5, 2001. Both have front sight posts that transverse about 20″ at 250 yards so, if the bad guy is no thinner than your front sight post ‘shoot’ him. So, ammunition for the Garand should be restricted to the bullet performances stated in this chart. The Shuster (a set screw allows settings to be adjusted) and the McCann ( must install 1 of 5 independent jets) gas plugs are available for less than $50. Both the M1A and M1 Garand have great spare parts availability and there are a lot of gunsmiths who are intimate with them. In this period simplicity, durability, and quality equal reliability and those facets weigh heavier than they would during normal times. iron sights. But, before we press- on know that the T-37 pronged flash suppressor is available for the Garand at the Fulton Armory for about $36 without installation . The M14 also uses a short stroke gas piston/op rod vs the Garand’s long stroke piston/op rod, and uses detachable external box magazines vs the Continue Reading The M14 is a battle rifle that is essentially an evolutionary re-design/upgrade of the M1 Garand, and aesthetically, the lineage is clear. Newer M1As are manufactured using cast AISI 8620 alloy steel, though the ones made from M14 blanks were manufactured using a drop forge process. It is, however, the proprietary name for Springfield Armory’s M14-pattern rifle. A comprehensive metallurgical report courtesy of Fulton Armory. This information is about the standard model rifles but, not all Garands or M14/M1A’s are of standard length. My experience with the M14/M1A is less than that with the Garand but, I have shot hundreds of rounds through this rifle on several occasions over the years. That’s only $0.10/day for some of the finest Survival/Prepping content around! After all, the M1 Garand was famous for its role in WWII and the M1A is just a variant of that… right? 16. While it has to be reloaded more often, a higher average rate of fire was maintained with the Garand (57 rnds/minute) than the M14 (40 rnds/minute). Interesting that in the hands of trained infantry in all cases, the Garand outperformed the M14 for typical small-unit engagements. 17.Tanker Garand.” Tony Giacobbe”. The resulting hardness was Rockwell D 59 to D 67″ ( 7 ). p11/38. Boston: PWS Publishing Company,1994. 25. As I recall details from structural engineering I know that cast steel is not forged steel. Any reputable gunsmith can check head space. Please support this website by adding us to your whitelist in your ad blocker. To address the issues, firearms manufacturers set to work on alternatives. (2002 -2009),p 11/37. M1 .30 Caliber Rifle www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/M1_garand.html.Nov 21, 2004 – Length, M1: 43.6 in (1107 mm) M1C, M1D: 46.125 in (1172 mm). Hatcher’s Notebook, Julian S. Hatcher, Major General, U.S. Army, retired, The Telegraph Press,1947. Clint McKee. So, because of the age of the milspec receivers, the fact that we do not know how close to the fatigue life we are with these refurbished receivers, that a M1 scout rail modification is subject to barrel contour, that a muzzle brake and magazine adapter are needed, that a gas plug may be required and because we will be operating in a non-support environment the .308 Garand is my second choice. The Garand is still used by drill teams and military honor guards. M1 Garand FAQ;M1 Garand Information Place-bottom of page. 1; 2; 3; Next. p 29-30. www.m1-garand-rifle.com. Clint McKee of Fulton Armory, has a very good discussion on the differences between these cartridges on web site. 28. That means you get more cogent internal structure and a far greater ability to withstand warping and wearing”. 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